| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Libbie |
Posted - Jul 30 2006 : 08:27:28 AM
Do any of you who have larger crop areas or farms use manual, as in high- or low-wheeled cultivators or animal, as in draft horses/oxen, chicken or other livestock "tractors" or any non-motorized ways of farming your areas? I have about a 15-acre pasture that I'd like to try some sort of cash crop in next year - I was wondering if the best option is hiring out the tractor work, or if there is something great that I'm not thinking about...
I have been looking into purchasing a tractor, and I SOOOooooooo want one, but it's just not in my current budget. Right now, I hire out the tractor work on the pasture and use mobile, open-bottomed chicken pens for weeding around the garden area. I also have one mobile pen like the chickens' that is 12'x12' and I have two lambs in it - that one weeds and mows the orchard area!
Do any of you have tips/hints of other things I might try in order to do the work of a tractor with the resources I have? What do you all do?
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| MullersLaneFarm |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 10:37:29 AM
We buy wormer from Farm & Fleet & my husband Paul takes care of their hoof trimming. they're 'barefoot' since they rarely travel on pavement of any kind. Eventually, their teeth will need to be floated.
By far the biggest expense is hay to keep them fed.
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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| Alee |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 10:14:54 AM
What a great idea Cyndi! And it is good to caution us- I know I can get excited about an idea and run headlong into something I am not totally prepared for. And with horses- especially ones as big as a draft animal- that can not only be foolish, but dangerous as well.
How much do your vet bills run for your horses?
Alee |
| MullersLaneFarm |
Posted - Jun 07 2007 : 08:24:29 AM
quote:
Back to your original question - yes, we use both draft horses and an old Farmall M to farm 5 acre of hayfield and maintain another 5+ of pasture. Of the two, I'd recommend an old tractor unless you already have experience with draft animals and have horse-drawn equipment. I don't want to discourage you from using drafts, but the time, initial equipment cost, the equipment break-down, the 365 day feeding of draft animals is far, far, far more expensive than a tractor that can do the job faster and you don't have to feed it when you're not using it!
We still have a team of Belgians, although a different team than when i first posted this. I was taught to drive with a team of Percherons (Smith & Jones) almost 10 years ago.
If you are new to draft horses, I suggest you buy an older team that has farm work under their belts. They're pretty hard to locate. Alot of the drafts are used soley for fancy wagon hitches and would spook on a mower, rake, plow or cultivator. A runaway draft team is nothing short of dangerous, especially when hitched to farm equipment.
Even buying from the Amish wouldn't guarantee a good team. There are plenty of 'teamster schools' across the country. Maybe you could attend one of these for a vacation??
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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| Alee |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 09:38:12 AM
Libbie-
I am with you there! If/When I ever have a farm that needs plowed, I want to get some working draft horses. They are so amazing! I love reading the James Herriot books where he talks about the draft horses. One particularly funny story was where he went out to look at a draft horse's sore foot. Well James picked the hoof up and started to pick it to see if the was an abcess. The horse thought that the human was so nice to pick up his sore foot for him and started to lean on James! He had a two ton animal leaning on his back!
Alee |
| Libbie |
Posted - May 30 2007 : 10:56:37 PM
I just have to bring this up again. Last week, my little ones and I traveled a couple of hours to our state's Lamb and Wool Festival. It was so interesting - in many respects - but one of the things that struck me was that there were a couple of teams of draft horses there - a team of beautiful Belgians and a really striking and HUGE team of Percherons.
Do any of you do your field work with draft horses? How does it work? Why do you do it with horses instead of a tractor?
I just fell in love - as close to love at first sight as I can remember - with the Percherons. They seem like gentle giants for sure. I could just imagine myself driving that team and loving it. It just seems like a huge, improbable dream to me. If there are farmgirls out there who use draft teams, how does it work for you?
XOXO, Libbie
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| Libbie |
Posted - Oct 17 2006 : 8:15:03 PM
Now I'm convinced... I'm going to go and check out the Gator and a few ATVs in the next couple of weeks to see if that might do what I'm looking for. I'm guessing that since I have about 17 acres, that these might be good options if I budget and plan for another farmer to do the heavy work - ploughing/discing (that doesn't look like it's spelled right...)/tilling, etc. but I'm just not sure. I still may want/need something larger. You all are great to share what is working for you. It leaves me hopeful instead of just green with tractor-envy!!!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| MsCwick |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 9:35:44 PM
Libbie, Thanks for the warm welcome. I think it's great to be able to get on here and jump right into comversations and topics. I have had such a wonderful welcome so far.
Our 4wheeler is just a small 250cc 4x2. It can pull 700-1000lbs. We're also getting a small trailer to pull the ATV on behind the truck, but we're going to also pull it behind the ATV w/ firewood on it from the woods. You also have the racks on front and back for a kid's seat, or to strap on some containers to haul your stuff around. It has an electric start, and you can shift w/ your foot or get an automatic. Our land is fairly hilly, but so far neither me nor my husband have managed to get a 2 wheel drive stuck yet. If your land isn't too steep/hilly/rocky, an ATV might work well for you. Of course they come a bit bigger, if you needed it, you could get a 400cc 4wheel drive. Our 250 ran us about $3400. My hubby just ordered me a 4 foot mower for the back. That will be about 1000. We're gonna make a drag out of chainlink fence w/ some cinder blocks on it. Tractor supply has a great ATV sprayer that you strap on the back. You can get a 4 foot blade, and even a little disc, dethatcher, cultivator, or landscaping rake! If cost is a concern, there are usually a few used ones in the local trading post newspapers(depending on where you are) Oh, and we have a total of 9 acres. about 5 are open/pasture, the rest woods. I don't have any land to till, but I know a lot of people who do it.
I hope this helps |
| Marybeth |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 3:41:54 PM
I have John Deere Gator. It is great for light tractor work and you can get all sorts of attachment. Or be inventive and make some thing up. I haul hay for the horses and use mine with an old drag i found to drag the pastures. It has a dump bed on it and when i garden or dig up roots and things or leaves, off I can go to the compost pile and the dumping is easy. You can get four wheel drive or 6 wheel.
Life may not be the party we hoped for....but while we are here we might as well dance! |
| Libbie |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 3:08:35 PM
Cristine - first of all, welcome to the forum!!! You know, an ATV just might be a good option, too. I could hire out the deep tractor work and use the ATV for more everyday, "regular" work. I AM interested in what size you purchased, and what amount of land you use it on. I just don't have ANY personal experience with machinery...
Thanks for the idea!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| MsCwick |
Posted - Oct 16 2006 : 2:34:51 PM
Libbie, What about a 4wheeler ATV? My husband and I were talking about getting a tractor, and then the idea came up of a 4wheeler for him to hunt with. Well, we passed on the tractor idea and got a 4wheeler, there is a 4 foot mower on the way, and there is a wide variety of ATV implements available for decent prices. The ATV is much easier to store in our small shed(as we don't have a barn yet) and it is multi functional.I could send you pictures or tell you what size it is and stuff if you'd like? You could also get a small cart to pull behind for your harvests... |
| Libbie |
Posted - Aug 29 2006 : 3:09:10 PM
I like that idea, too - actually, I'm going to look at some Port-A-Huts in a town about an hour away from us here and the man who is a distributer has pastured pigs - I'm going to see just what he does with his - if it looks good, I'll report back....
You all have such great ideas - thank you!!! It's funny how sometimes I can get a one-track mind and miss all of the other ideas along the way. I was thinking that, of course, I NEEDED a tractor, when maybe what I need is to continue to explore options!!!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| MullersLaneFarm |
Posted - Aug 25 2006 : 2:14:01 PM
I like the 'frog-jumping' idea, Laura. That would give you time to move the alternate pen.
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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| LJRphoto |
Posted - Aug 24 2006 : 7:24:54 PM
I haven't noticed any aggressiveness in our pigs. Only with each other when they are fighting over food like Cyndi mentioned. They also wrestle with each other but I think that's more about entertaining themselves. I certainly wouldn't let my kids get into the pen with them now that they are so big and I barely let them get in when we first got them more because I was afraid someone would get a knee taken out than anything else. I hate getting in there myself. They've never come after me or anything but they are curious and want to bite at my pants and sniff me. It's a little intimidating with all four of them tasting my jeans! The kids and I give them pats and back scratches from over the fence and no one reaches in when they are eating. My kids are also considerably older than your little ones. So, I agree with Cyndi. Pigs might have the potential to be dangerous, but I think if they are well managed you shouldn't have to worry too much. Just have rules and good fencing and you should be fine.
Cyndi's suggestion to move the pigs every couple of weeks is a great one. You could make the move easier by buying enough panels to make two pens. Make it like one big pen that's divided down the center and then you can just pop one of the panels off and herd or lure them next door, then close it back up and "frog jump" the extra pen to the other side and so on.
Oh, and regarding the sunburn. My pigs have a wallow, but it seems like they are always missing a spot and getting a little pink.
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| MullersLaneFarm |
Posted - Aug 24 2006 : 1:32:42 PM
We've raised yorkshire & yorkshire crosses. We now have berkshires and a couple yorkshires.
If I were you and had 15 acres that I needed dug up at the lowest cost, I'd sure go with pigs. I wouldn't give them access to the whole fifteen acres though. Getting 2 pigs (never less than 2 pigs!) and 4 to 6 cattle panels that you can move every few weeks will get a good amount of that ground turned up. The hard part would be moving the panels every few weeks, moving their house & hauling enough water.
We have a tree in the middle of our pigpen so our Yorks don't get too sunburned. They love to coat themselves in mud to help protect them from the sun AND flies!
FWIW, ALL animals can be dangerous - even that cute little banty rooster can put out an eye of a child. We've never had a pig even offer to by mean. That doesn't mean they won't push their weight around if you get in their pen with a feed bucket! I don't like going in there when the pigs outweigh me! They love to get scratched and are begging for scratches, but doesn't mean they can't do damage without meaning to. Use your common sense and you'll be fine!
ETA:
Back to your original question - yes, we use both draft horses and an old Farmall M to farm 5 acre of hayfield and maintain another 5+ of pasture. Of the two, I'd recommend an old tractor unless you already have experience with draft animals and have horse-drawn equipment. I don't want to discourage you from using drafts, but the time, initial equipment cost, the equipment break-down, the 365 day feeding of draft animals is far, far, far more expensive than a tractor that can do the job faster and you don't have to feed it when you're not using it!
Cyndi
Muller's Lane Farm http://www.mullerslanefarm.com
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| Libbie |
Posted - Aug 24 2006 : 09:49:41 AM
I think you're right about the colors of pigs - I just can't see myself rubbing sunscreen on these guys very often! The photos I've seen of Berkshires are black and pink - really cute. I've heard that pigs are dangerous to keep when you have little kids around - have you found this to be true?
If I DO end up getting pigs, I'd really like a heritage breed like the Gloucester or Berkshire, too. I can understand why you're a bit iffy about harvest time - I get that way each year about our lambs. It's so sad to see them happily getting on the "harvest" trailer.... I just have to console myself with the fact that they've had a good, happy, healthy life, and they are going to nourish my family and friends. Those thoughts may help with the piggies...
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| LJRphoto |
Posted - Aug 23 2006 : 11:07:53 PM
I honestly don't know a ton about either breed. Obviously they are both of English decent, but the Yorkshire is a white pig and I think that the Berkshire is a colored pig. I think that Berkshires might be bigger too. I know Yorkshires have a good feed conversion rate, but I think the the light colored skin is a bit of a drawback for the way you and I would/do use them. Mine tend to get sunburned and then they are extremely itchy which is hard on the fencing (and homemade shelters-there are some funny pictures on our blog)... now that they are really big they occassionally pop out a panel while rubbing on them, but they might do that sunburned or not. We moved their pen to a shadier area than where we had them originally that we were wanting cleared. I really should read up on the breeds more. We're actually interested in the Gloucester Old Spots but haven't researched whether or not there is someone in the immediate area breeding them or not. We got the ones we have now from a farmer that a friend of mine was already using and have been extremely happy with them. I'm a little sad about harvest time.
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| Libbie |
Posted - Aug 23 2006 : 10:08:19 PM
Wow - that is a cool website - that guy is doing some really interesting things. His pigs are so cute, too! And wow, do they work hard, or what?!?!? That makes me think that it really might be possible to use pigs in an effective way on my farm. In the Sept./Oct. issue of Hobby Farms magazine, they have a pretty neat article on Berkshire pigs - are Yorkshires anything like that?
A combination of hiring out the tractor work and possibly using pigs is sounding really interesting...
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| LJRphoto |
Posted - Aug 23 2006 : 08:30:17 AM
Here's the website I was talking about. It's a lot of fun.
http://www.richsoil.com/pigs/index.jsp
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| LJRphoto |
Posted - Aug 22 2006 : 09:40:36 AM
We have four. They are a Yorkshire mix (I can't remember what the other half is). We bought them as feeders from a local farmer. They really do an amazing job of turning up the ground, but you're right - it might take quite a few pigs to turn up 15 acres. I found a cool link once about a guy who has his pigs do almost all of that type of stuff for him, including turning a huge compost pile. I'll see if I can find it for you.
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| Libbie |
Posted - Aug 21 2006 : 9:59:23 PM
I'd never thought of pigs!!! I don't think I could handle however many pigs it would take to "till" up the 15 acres, but it sure is a great idea for our smaller section of garden and test plots for veggies and flowers. What kind of pigs do you have, Laura - and how many?
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| LJRphoto |
Posted - Aug 14 2006 : 10:31:55 AM
Another suggestion for getting ground broken... PIGS. Our pigs are the most effective ground breaking tools I've ever seen. The "floor" of our barn is covered with very old, very hard goat manure. We recently made a stall inside the barn for the pigs since the shelter my husband built didn't fair too well. They literally had all of that old, crusty manure turned up in 5 minutes. I want to empty the barn and let them go to it! I also have a new garden area on the pasture that we just moved them off of.
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| Libbie |
Posted - Aug 14 2006 : 08:29:54 AM
I've decided that this autumn, we'll hire out the tractor work instead of taking on debt - right now I'm in the free and clear, and it's just not a good time to take on payments for me. BUT, that being said, I'm holding fast to the dream of my very own "Jane Deere" (thanks for the term, Julia!!!) and doing the work how I want it done, when I want it done - with my boys in tow!!!
Laura, I agree - Kim is one knowledgeable farmgirl - I'm so grateful for everyone's input! We have some folks in a neighboring town that have a small asparagus operation that seems very successful. I'm curious about that, too! Let us know what you find out.
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| LJRphoto |
Posted - Aug 12 2006 : 9:52:27 PM
I know how you feel Libbie. I fantasize about riding around on my brand new Kubota scooping up this and smoothing down that. Instead I ride around on my little tiny, hand-me-down lawn tractor and am grateful that it is still running.
Kim, you are a fountain of useful information. I'd love to pick your brain about the profitability of home grown asparagus.
"I would feel more optimistic about a bright future for man if he spent less time proving that he can outwit Nature and more time tasting her sweetness and respecting her seniority." -E. B. White
http://www.betweenthecities.com/blog/ljr/
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| Libbie |
Posted - Aug 12 2006 : 9:03:11 PM
Thanks for all of the information! Because I have no "tractor" experience, I'm a bit nervous about purchasing a used/in-need-of-rebuild tractor - and my husband has his hands full right now with our sheep - BUT, now that I think of it, the same family of older farmer-guys that we have looked to to hire out tractor work to also rebuild and restore tractors. I don't know why I didn't think to ask them... Thanks for the suggestion!!!
I guess after reading all of your posts and thinking some more, I really need to run the numbers on tractor prices/costs versus hiring out the work - I just have this definitely hard to shake vision of sitting on a tractor doing my own work on my own fields.....
I just love hearing what all of you are growing around your places - blueberries, grapes.....it sounds heavenly!
XOXO, Libbie
"Nothing is worth more than this day." - Goethe |
| santa_gertrudis_gal |
Posted - Jul 31 2006 : 09:52:23 AM
Elizabeth does well with keeping her tractor costs down, and that seems to me a very economical way to spend her money! Grapes and or blueberries would keep her costs down, and provide a high value cash crop in comparison to other crops. Blueberries can take a while to produce at good cash inflow though. I quickly found an extension publication from Penn State, that even lists costs and cash flows. It's for the High Bush Varieties which are my favorites. Best cooking berries are the Rabbit Eye Varieties as they hold their shape, but are a little more bitter then the High Bush. 15 acres of blueberries would allow you to have a pick your own operation. I know I could have 15 acres of blueberries and do the picking by hand in a week, working 5 days a week about 10 hours picking a day during weeks 2-4 of the harvest. I know this because I worked on a North Carolina State Extension farm for two summers. It's really surprising how you can also incorporate other acid loving plants in between the rows when the bushes are young that would provide additional cash flow until the plants reach maturity. Ideally you would want to plant the fifteen acres in blueberries over a three to four year period due to the lifespan of the plants for optium production is 4 to 9 years of age. The older plants would have to be removed to start new ones to maintain some production levels. Publication website (need Adobe Acrobat Reader):
http://agalternatives.aers.psu.edu/crops/highbush_blueberry/highbush_blueberry.pdf
Back to tractors. For just fifteen acres you could purchase a large garden tractor with implements to do your work if your heart is set on vegatables. You said you priced one, but did you price a used tractor. Tractors last a very long time, especially an older one. We purchased a used Ford 4610 that is about 14 years old and runs like a top with the implements for about $13,700. This is plenty big enough for our 274 acre ranch and way too big for your 15 acres. My husband bought a used 1937 Farmall Cub about five years ago and spent $1500 initially. We rebuilt it completely, in otherwards tore it down to frame, cost another $1200. Restored the tractor as it was when it was brand new. This was an FFA project for my son and when it was finished it was sold for $7000. DS learned alot from it. My husband has been purchasing and restoring tractors on and off for our entire marriage. He's done three so far. It becomes an addiction for alot of people. The older tractors don't have the electronics of the newer ones and make it much easier to repair. If your husband is into fixing things, he just might like to take on the restoration of an old tractor. I know somewhere down the line I'm going to have another taking up the shop like the Farmall did and the two John Deere tractors before it. Here's the Farmall when it was torn down to the frame. Unfortunately in a computer crash we lost the pictures of it when done.
Have fun developing your 15 acres!
Kim
Heaven is a day at the ranch with my Santa Gertrudis! |
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