| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| FieldsofThyme |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 06:38:09 AM
http://www.ecorazzi.com/2011/11/29/horse-slaughter-for-human-consumption-now-legal-thanks-to-president-obama/
Farmgirl #800
http://pioneerwomanatheart.blogspot.com/
http://scrapreusedandrecycledartprojects.blogspot.com/
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| melody |
Posted - Dec 03 2011 : 2:36:49 PM
I agree Paula-
Mel
Farmgirl #525 |
| StrawHouseRanch |
Posted - Dec 03 2011 : 08:07:19 AM
I agree, a lot of people fall into the "horses are like potato chips" trap. They can't have just one...then they find themselves trying to feed a herd. I would still put mine down with a shotgun, if I couldn't afford to take care of it anymore, or couldn't afford to have a vet put it down rather than send it off to a slaughterhouse. No one will benefit from the meat, because it has been tainted with substances we shouldn't ingest. Now if people really wanted to go to the expense of raising horses just for meat, keeping all of the unsafe substances out of their bloodstream, trimming their hooves on a regular basis and floating their teeth like they should, then go for it. If they didn't do all of those things even for horses who were meant for human consumption, then they would be neglecting the health of the animal while it was in their care.
Paula
Farmgirl Sister #3090
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, and Today is a Gift.
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| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 11:59:42 PM
Brutal honesty from me here, horses are such an intense expense, that as much as I love them-- I've decided I will probably never have the time to ride enough again to ever be able to justify owning another saddle horse for myself.
I'm actually breathing a little sigh of relief that the old horses that have been in the family for decades have a finite time left. I'm pleased we've been able to see them through from their productive years, to retirement and their last days, but I will feel better when I won't have to worry about those feed bills for a while. Money has been tight for a long time and I'll be content to not take on another one until we're stable enough to not have to rely on homeopathy for veterinary care. >_<
I'm positive it's true for countless strapped horse lovers. There's nothing to do but feed them well and focus on diligent preventative care.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut. ~Will Rogers |
| smiley |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 8:55:40 PM
Great thread ladies! My 16 yr old daughter wants to be a vet specializing in equine care and her and I had a heated debate on this subject 2 weeks ago. I called her in to read this thread to me. She said I like that Jen lady! I will admit it is still troubling to me emotion wise but practically speaking I see what Tina and others have said as true. Perhaps it is a sad needed reality of our world. I agree the government should not be able to have such a say in our "kitchens"also. But isnt it great we live in a country where we can still go online and voice our opinions even when they disagree with our leaders? I guess thats the topic for another thead huh? |
| Megan |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 7:34:02 PM
Horses are really not that differnt than elk or deer they eat grass drink water what is differnt from cows some horses are bred by people that have no right to own stallions
www.rockriverexoticsandkennel.net |
| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 11:10:26 AM
Kristina, the problem is, the rescues are full, out of business (and some should be), no money or donations for feed (and its expensive)or vet care, so where do they go...euthanize (and alot of people can't afford a vets cost or disposil costs), starve to death in out of sight, out of mind ways, turn them loose to cause traffic wrecks where human life is lost, etc, etc , etc...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
| FieldsofThyme |
Posted - Dec 02 2011 : 08:24:58 AM
It just seems wrong to have rescue shelters for these animals and then see it go legal to slaughter them for food. I know some countries eat it, but in the U.S.? If it were life and death it would be a different I guess.
Farmgirl #800
http://pioneerwomanatheart.blogspot.com/
http://scrapreusedandrecycledartprojects.blogspot.com/
From my Camera: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pioneerwomanatheart/
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| Lieberkim |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 1:55:28 PM
Meat is meat. If it bothers someone to eat horse, dog, guinea pig, chicken, duck, turkey, guinea fowl, rabbit, pig, cow, yak, buffalo, moose, deer, elk, caribou........ then don't eat it, but that shouldn't stop someone else from eating it.
Excuse the mess & the noise, my children are making happy memories |
| melody |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 11:22:42 AM
My major beef (sorry no pun intended) is regulatory commissions supervising the slaughter of horses or in any slaughterhouse. Lord, I can't even watch that stuff on TV, but from the horror films I have viewed on the subject that is where we need to concentrate our energy on. Who is going to pay for inspections, etc.? What happens when a slaughterhouse is not in compliance-Fines? What?
I agree wholeheartedly about it being your choice whether to consume horse, beef, pig or chicken. And, that it is better to put an animal down instead of letting it suffer or be abused. But, getting that product to your table should have very, very specific guidelines that should be adhered to in the extreme and that should be priority #1.
Sorry for the rant...I'll climb down off my soap-box now!
Melody
Farmgirl #525 |
| Annika |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 08:48:45 AM
While I don't want to eat horse meat, I will say that it is humane to kill them, rather than letting them starve. There are way too many unwanted horses and horses that people cannot afford to keep. I don't want them to starve, that is such a horrible way to die. I would, however, like to know how they are slaughtered and that it is done as humanely as possible.
Annika
Farmgirl & sister #13
http://thegimpyfarmgirl.blogspot.com/
http://pinterest.com/annikaloveshats/
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. ~Leonardo DaVinci
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| queenmushroom |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 08:30:31 AM
I am not an expert on foriegn cusine, but I have been told by a fairly reliable source that has been to Japan, that if you order steak at a restaurant, you have to specify beef or horse and if you don't, you WILL get horse. Frankly, with all this hubub about horse slaughter, I am not in favor with horse meat for human consuption if the horse has not been reared in an environment for that purpose. You figure, our ancestors probably ate horse meat right along with deer, cow, pig and chicken. It didn't hurt them any taking into consideration the unsanitary conditions at the time. Regarding the slaughter house itself, I would rather have an animal layed away, then let it suffer in "well meaning" but abusive conditions. Like all species of pets, there are too many unwanted ones and sadly, as much as our animal loving instincts want to, we can't save them all. Sorry if you disagree with me.
Patience is worth a bushel of brains...from a chinese fortune cookie |
| MEWolf |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 08:01:33 AM
This is such a tough issue. I have either been involved with, or owned horses for 20 years. Back in the day, when most folks who had horses could afford to take care of them, slaughter was not as big an issue. But now, there are so many people who have these beautiful creatures, who can ill afford to do so, slaughter is back on the table. As it should be.
The rescues are full, the racing industry keeps crankin'em out trying to breed the next triple crown winner; not to mention the culling of the wild horse population. There is such a glut of horses that are either run through sales, let go to fend for themselves, etc. that it is an unfortunate necessity. I have been involved with rescue and rehab of baby horses for a few years now. We had to euthanize one of our babies, due to a catastrophic hoof break, it was a horrible thing, but it was the right choice to make for the honor of the animal.
Quality of life is as important for our animal friends as it is for humans. We as humans bear a responsibility to each and every animal we take into our care. And if we are not willing to accept the hard and bad stuff along with the good, we should not own animals.
Margaret
Kind hearts are the gardens, kind thoughts are the roots, kind words are the flowers, kind deeds are the fruits. Take care of your garden and keep out the weeds, fill it with sunshine, kind words and kind deeds. ~Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1808-1882)
Farmgirl #3020
www.grey-wolf-farm.com |
| StrawHouseRanch |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 05:21:43 AM
It looked like for awhile that Canada was on board with the idea of the unsafe meat handling sourced from horses. I haven't heard what their final vote was, but this article makes enough good points to make sure that you would never want to eat horse meat, and it would seem like if we shipped tainted meat to third world countries, we would be as guilty of poisoning other populations as some of our eastern countries have been of importing food to the U.S. with unsafe ingredients:
http://www.animallawcoalition.com/horse-slaughter/article/1370
Paula
Farmgirl Sister #3090
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, and Today is a Gift.
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| melody |
Posted - Dec 01 2011 : 05:03:17 AM
Exactly Jen!!
Melody
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| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 8:57:35 PM
Agreed. horse slaughter is one issue that I am not convinced has a "right" or "wrong" answer. I feel that the "wrongness" of it falls down to choices individuals make that is disloyal in proportion to what a specific animal has given his human masters.
I don't feel it is the US governments role to tell people what they can or can't eat if it really comes down to it, and on that level it really resonates with something we all have in common: our desire to tell the government to get it's fat pork barrel nose out of our kitchens; force feeding us high fructose corn syrup while denying us raw milk.
I think the original point of the thread though, was to poke fun at a president that signed turkey "stay of executions" for a couple of birds, but silently passed a slaughter bill on horses, which many americans no doubt have stronger feelings for than turkies.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut. ~Will Rogers |
| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 7:15:37 PM
Natilie, very well stated from the other side, and I'm with you on your opionion, as well as your facts...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
| YakLady |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 7:08:21 PM
For the record, this hasn't always been illegal. In December 2006, when there were no more horse slaughter facilities remaining open in the US, the law was passed that made it illegal to sell horses to foreign countries (Canada and Mexico usually) to slaughter for consumption (as opposed to rendering which is different). At this time, I was in the animal science program at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo. The law caused a major uproar in all the Ag. professors. These are people who love horses, own horses, train and treat horses- but they were not at all happy with the law. The reason was what has already been addressed: People were able to get some minute amount of money in return for their old, no-longer-of-use horses by selling them to slaughter. This meant that they kept feeding them until they left the owner's control. After that law, we were all very concerned that unwanted horses would simply be turned out to fend for themselves. And boy, were they. Horse cruelty cases are horrid and many were caused, at least in part, by the 2006 law. The affect of the 2006 law has been magnified with the state of the economy.
Also, it's good to note that most of the meat produced from horses is EXPORTED to other countries where horse is a staple to their diet. Europe and Asia are where most of the meat goes. At this point in our economy, slaughter facilities opening in multiple states, making hundreds+ jobs each, and disposing of unwanted animals in a humane way that can increase our gross national product- Sounds like a good idea to me.
Now, I know that makes me sound like a psycho horse hater or something, but I assure you- I love horses. I've seen too many horses that were 1s or 2s on the BCS to think that every horse in this country has a quality of life worthy of such an animal. I know those of you ladies here with horses are NOT letting your horses starve, and that most, if not all, of you will be burying your horses on your property because they are family to you. Your horses are so fortunate to have you, but not all horses are so lucky. And yes, there are many horse rescues out there, many of which are hurting for funds and having a very rough time making ends meet. People with rescues have huge hearts, but rescuing horses is fund-intensive.
Many people are opposed to horse slaughter because they see horses as pets, not food. Same as a dog, cat, guinea pig, etc. In other parts of the world (some not far away), all of these are consumed by people. It's a matter of perspective. It doesn't make one right and the other wrong- just different. If those differences can help create American jobs, I think we should let them.
~Natalie~ Just a farmgirl in Western Montana. http://mtnme.blogspot.com
Starting a family and raising Tibetan Yaks, Nigerian Dwarf Goats, Laying hens, Muscovy ducks, and a few dogs. |
| melody |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 6:58:37 PM
Well said Jen! Thanks for the clarification.
Melody |
| Dusky Beauty |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 6:23:26 PM
This is what I know about the horse market and how it effects the horse meat market:
All horses come from either a breeder, or from BLM mustang stocks.
Breeders come from many different stripes: High end million dollar purebred breeding/show/race stock; average breeders of pedigreed animals for breeding, show or pleasure; backyard breeders that produce a single foal a year for personal use and sale; and PMU breeders that harvest the mares for pharmaceutical hormones and the foals are a byproduct of that "crop".
The destiny of a horse is one part his origin, one part training, and two parts luck.
The higher up on the ladder a horse begins life, the more cash value it has. The more training the more resale value it has.
When a horse is a valuable one, it is sold in a venue that corresponds to it's perceived cash value.
The horses of least value either have a physical defect like an injury that prevents them from being ridden, have no use due to lack of training, are too old to work, or are just "gotten rid of" because the owner doesn't have time to sell the animal any other way.
These animals end up in livestock auctions for open bid. If the bid for an animal is cheap enough to be less than the price per pound on the hoof, the "kill buyers" bid on the animal. If it is above the kill price because private buyers bid it up for whatever reason, they don't. When you hear about a rescue person or group "rescuing horses from auction" they are bidding only against kill buyers, and prioritize their resources on the animals that have the best chance at rehabilitation and placement so they will have a good turnover rate.
At the end of foal season, you see a lot of PMU foals in the kill auctions. when the weather gets chilly and feed gets expensive, you see a lot more older and well trained horses in the mix as people can't afford to feed them and don't think about riding at that time of year.
Ironically, more slaughter will reduce the burden on rescues and improve the horse market prices for breeders, on the down side... well lets just say that the slaughter issue in the horse community is one of those subject like religion, politics, and abortion. Everyone's got a very passionate opinion, and it's more likely a fight will break out than anyone's mind be changed.
I say continue to treat your animals ethically and responsibly. If you care where a horse in your care ends up, take care when you sell it that it goes to someone who feels as you do. If you don't want to support the horse meat market, don't buy it for your family or your dogs.
If you want to help good horses have good lives, support rescue groups you believe in. If you want to rescue a horse from an auction yourself, that's a whole 'nother thread entirely.
"The greatness of a nation and it's moral progress can be judged by the way it's animals are treated." ~Gandhi
http://silvermoonfarm.blogspot.com/
"After eating an entire bull, a mountain lion felt so good he started roaring. He kept it up until a hunter came along and shot him. The moral: When you're full of bull, keep your mouth shut. ~Will Rogers |
| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 6:09:34 PM
Unfortunatly this subject, no matter how you feel or what beliefs you have, will cause some hurt feelings and wars between people, I would never send one of mine to a slaughter house, but, some people will have no choice, unless all who think this is WRONG, will step up and take on every horse who loses his home for what ever reason, and we all know that won't happen...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
| melody |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 5:46:07 PM
My daughter was just telling me about this tonight. GAG me with a spoon!
As if it is not bad enough to actually slaughter a horse for consumption it's a HORSE for goodness sake! It boggles the mind...
And the fact that this bill actually slipped through the cracks and was signed by our "esteemed" turkey pardoning President-YIKES! Wonder if horse meat will be served at the white house? I sincerely DOUBT that!
I thought he said during his campaign he would BAN the slaughter of horses for meat consumption?? Just another empty campaign promise. Accountability, Mr. President....I'm just sayin.
But, I'm confused...When a horse is "slaughtered" is it diseased, on death's door or are they raised to be slaughtered for consumption? If so do the restaurants that sell horse meat disclose to the customer that in fact you are eating horse meat?
My stomach does cart-wheels just imagining this. DD mentioned that this is considered a delicacy overseas. BCCCCCCHHHH!
Melody
Farmgirl #525 |
| prariehawk |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 5:03:19 PM
The problem, as I see it, is that some horses are beloved companions, and there have been cases where horses have been stolen and sold for horsemeat. This happened to a young girl in my area. The slaughterhouses don't care where the horse comes from--they're just interested in making a profit. If I had a horse and someone stole it and sold it to the butchers, I'd be very upset. And the fact is, there are some things I just won't eat. Like frog legs. and horsemeat.
Cindy
"Vast floods can't quench love, no matter what love did/ Rivers can't drown love, no matter where love's hid"--Sinead O'Connor
"In many ways, you don't just live in the country, it lives inside you"--Ellen Eilers
Visit my blog at http://www.farmerinthebelle.blogspot.com/ |
| StrawHouseRanch |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 4:27:43 PM
I'm not sure if the physical suffering or the emotional suffering a horse experiences by being removed from his/her familiar, once loving surroundings and then hauled in a noisy, smelly trailer far away, with a bunch of other scared horses is worse. After all of that adrenaline shock, the meat can't be good anyway. It seems to me that raising horses for meat would be an awfully pricey practice. They aren't quite as tough or easy to raise as cattle, require a lot of space and tend to hurt themselves a lot more than cattle.
Personally, if I was in a situation where I could no longer care for my horses and could not find a home for them, I would find someone with a rifle and lay him to rest in his own pasture. But that's because I'm a softie when it comes to horses.
Paula
Farmgirl Sister #3090
Yesterday is History, Tomorrow is a Mystery, and Today is a Gift.
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| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 3:37:36 PM
there are rescues/sanctuarys starving horses all over this country, people are letting their horses starve with the "outa sight, outa mind" way of thinking, others are letting them almost starve, and then turning them loose to die in traffic collisions, where humans get hurt also, then you've got those who say, "If you can not afford them , why do you have them", well I could afford them before the economy tanked and I lost my job/home, then couldn't give them away cause no one can afford them, soooo.. now what, put them down, Vet charges a few hundred, plus disposal costs, its that or feeding my kids, now what...donate them to a zoo or big cat sanctuary as food, great, whats the differance??? I could go on and on, and I have and always have had horses, so its not like I don't know how it feels, but , I will not let any animal suffer, and if push comes to shove, I will do what I have to do....
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
| Ninibini |
Posted - Nov 30 2011 : 3:23:17 PM
I'm in agreement with you, Jen. And, if my family were starving, of COURSE I would eat whatever was put before me. As far as the "ew" factor, I'm sure people in India feel the same way about eating cows. I don't condemn them for their feelings at all - that's how they feel.
I get what you're saying Tasha-Rose, I really do. And I do not mean at all any disrespect, but your scripture reference has been taken out of context. That vision of Peter's was Christ's way of telling Peter we are all of one body, and not to exclude anyone if they want to partake of Christ. You have to read ALL of Acts 10:9 - 10:28... If you take it out of context, the entire meaning is lost. That's not to say that God hasn't permitted all food for men. I think you may have been thinking of Romans 14:19 - 14:22: "19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall. 22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves." In other words, go ahead and eat of the food that is put before you so that you do not insult anyone, because God made us clean through Christ, and no food can change the work God has done in us. If we're legalistic about stuff, then we're under the Law rather than under Grace. So, that's what "we Christians," as you put it, need to keep mindful of... I know you meant no disrespect, either, I do. And I hope that you will also please understand my "ew" was not because other people eat it, but rather because I couldn't bring myself to eat a horse - unless starving - anymore than I could bring myself to eat my dog or my neighbor's cat. I am sorry if my remark offended you or anyone else in any way, truly! :) I have the utmost respect for all of our farmgirl sisters!
Hugs -
Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
www.papercraftingwithnini.myctmh.com
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