| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Bridge |
Posted - Apr 25 2006 : 3:41:24 PM
I just want to put this out here, to see what every one else thinks about it.
I have been buying organic for a few years and I appreciate knowing my dollars go to the farmers and that I am getting a good quality product that is good on the Earth.
But lately I am really concerned from all the news of the rising popularity of Organics. What does this mean for the integrity of what Organic really is?
Here are few articles:
Colgate buys Toms of Maine
Organic Industry Structure
Now Wal-Mart is stating they are going to increase there market of Organics. Do you think this is a good thing or not.
I don't want to pay premium prices for a big name companies marketing strategy. Just last night I opened a can of Organic Diced tomatoes and was reading the label in tiny print it stated Product of Israel. I emailed the company to ask for explanation of what that means. The pretty web site states all tomatoes are from sunny CA.... I'll let you know if I recieve a reply back.
I believe that local farm fresh is best! But that isn't always possible.
~~Bridge's Boutique~~
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| 17 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Mari-dahlia |
Posted - May 01 2006 : 07:42:43 AM
Growing organic is more than not spraying or fertilizing with chemicals. It also pays a fair wage and slaughters and raises animals humanely. It costs more because we pay people more. We are not hiring illegal aliens and we are not paying pennies a bushel for picking etc. What bothers me is that everyone does not have to follow these guidelines. Even non- organic. I am inspected every year, if I were not organic I would never see an inspector. Should'nt the growers who supply most of the produce inside and outside the US see an inspector every year?
Organics should have quality and integrety, should'nt everyone else, why should'nt everyone have to raise and slaughter animals humanely, organic or not? |
| westernhorse51 |
Posted - May 01 2006 : 07:32:33 AM
NOTE: to explain what I mean by USDA cheating; when they(usda)allow big companies to label their products "organic" when they are not, and they are not following organic procedures or practices, they are cheating. At least to me.
she selects wool and flax and works with eager hands Prov.31:13 |
| westernhorse51 |
Posted - May 01 2006 : 06:08:00 AM
It seems to me when the big companies start to USE organic labeling, it all start going to .... I will buy as local as I possibly can. The USDA cheats, no other way to say it, they cheat consumers, they cheat the farmers who are REALLY organic and they cheat the small companies who are trying to sell organic. If for no other reason at all, buying organic means your buying healthy food w/out all the crap. Don't we all want that? But, I want to know it is REALLY organic and I can do that by buying on a local level. Also, eating in season helps the local communities, even better if it's organic. I will buy if it's not organic but at least I know it's grown without pesticides and metals and who knows what else. To me it just makes sense and I'd rather support my local grower then walmart & someone like them. You can't always & I know that but doing it as much as possible helps and hopefully we can go back to eating natural home grown foods w/out extras we wouldnt feed our animals.
she selects wool and flax and works with eager hands Prov.31:13 |
| westernhorse51 |
Posted - May 01 2006 : 05:48:24 AM
what bothers me is, WHY get them from Isreal? Get them right here. If we made it better and supported more organic farming in this counrty, we wouldnt have to go out of country to get the tom. in the first place. This drives me crazy. I dont think the organic standards should change but more support and help for going organic should be available. People aren't buying organic because it cost so much, well it will until more people buy it!!
she selects wool and flax and works with eager hands Prov.31:13 |
| Mari-dahlia |
Posted - May 01 2006 : 05:37:19 AM
MaryAnn,
I wish you were correct about WAlmart. I have been a true Walmart fan from the Get-go and love Sam Walton and the american dream fulfilled but... Walmart is a huge lobby in Washington and so is Kraft foods which owns alot of organics under a different name and Dean foods, Horizon milk etc. There is a law suit currently which is demanding that the USDA enforce organic regulations with some of these companies because currently they are not. In fact horizon milk has been non-compliant for a couple of years and the paperwork by the inspectors even says(does not follow organic principles) and the USDA has done nothing. One of us would have lost their Organic certification immediately. The Head council for Kraft foods is married to the majority whip and has influenced organic legislation and the recent watering down of the law.
Cascadian Farms was a family owned operation but was bought out by a big guy and now all of the veggies come from China. WHo regulates China? anyone? In Mexico it is legal to put human fecies on their fields, I guess technically this would be organic but do you want to eat it?
I believe in Capitalism and think it works but we need to be on the same playing field and we are not. Horizon owns a 5000 cow milking facility with only a couple of hundred acres of land. Tell me how they are grass fed and in fields? They are'nt. They are in the barn and never see the light of day (which is against organic regulations) and the USDA knows it. The only time their cows see the light of day is when they are dry and aren't being milked. Dean foods owns another large milking facility in Colorado in an area that does not even have grass. Grass is incapable of growing their and the USDA knows it and they still produce under an organic label.
This is why the organic growers are up in arms, not because of the compitition but because we can't compete if they break regulation and we are the only ones complying. It is a matter of personal belief for us, not just a matter of profit, so cheating for the little guy is out of the question. It is the exact opposite of your theory that the big guy would be more compliant.
We have been demanding action from the USDA for two years and they have done nothing. The problem is that the general public does not know and they think that since they don't know it won't hurt them.
I am by no means an activist of any kind but when my government knows that Arsenic has been put in Chicken feed since the 50's, I GET VERY Angry. When all of the good food goes to Europe and China and Japan because, we do feed the world and they don't want crap, we get whats left. We get the junk that none of these other countries want.
What I would like to see on the website is actual information on what brands to buy or not buy form people. I think it is great that people put in links to other websites but I don't have time to go to them usually. So if anyone is interested, if you could just summerize the info and put in the important points I know I would appreciate it.
Even when I am busiest, I manage to check Maryjanes website every night or two.
Marianne
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| Horseyrider |
Posted - Apr 27 2006 : 12:21:01 PM
I just came back from Walmart. This is the closest grocery that offers a variety of things I want and need (although I don't like their meats). Among other things, I picked up some Earthbound Farms tiny green lettuces in a bag, some organic apples, some Neumann's Own organic valencia oranges, and some Cascadian Farms organic granola bars. These are all items I'd find at Whole Foods if I was willing to drive another hour to Wheaton, depending on traffic. The lettuces and oranges come from California. The apples are from Washington state. I don't know where all the ingredients of the granola bars come from, but I trust this company to buy smart; it's been around for a long time and has an excellent reputation. I buy them because they're treats to my grandsons, and I can throw them in a saddlebag for long trail rides without much concern.
I'm having a hard time seeing anything wrong with this.
I also like to buy locally, but the lettuces aren't ready here yet, I only want six granola bars because I won't use up a big batch made at home, apples won't be ready until fall here, and oranges don't grow here at all.
More often than not, there are laws of economics such as those that Amy mentioned that drive the marketplace, not corporate conspiracies or malicious frauds against consumers.
I live close to a Del Monte cannery. I don't believe any organic product is canned there, but I do know about the field to canning time, and it beats the pants off of anybody except those of us who pick it in our own yard and run for the kitchen. It's picked and in a can in about 12-24 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar for those tomatoes. I can buy local corn, but I can't get it in the can faster than they do unless I grow it myself or find a U-Pick that happens to have their corn at the peak just as I arrive. I have no way of knowing if the growers on the street corners in pickup trucks picked it yesterday or a few days ago.
The tomatoes from Israel were more than likely picked reasonably ripe (for canned tomatoes) and canned there, and labeled here. It makes far more sense to can close to the fields.
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| Horseyrider |
Posted - Apr 27 2006 : 04:38:59 AM
Well said, Amy. |
| Amy Driggs |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 5:14:23 PM
Hi all this is a long post. So I'm going to put the websites/books I'm referring to at the top and you can read about them below if you want to:
1) http://www.michaelpollan.com/index.htm ("The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals")
2) The Diffusion of Innovations-by Everett M. Rogers
3) www.eatwild.com (links to local natural meat suppliers)
I don't necessarily have answers but some thoughts and information to share. I would suggest reading Michael Pollan's new book, "The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals" He talks about some of the issues we are all concerned with and are bringing up here. His first books are also very interesting and he's an easy pleasurable read for an academic guy. Go here: http://www.michaelpollan.com/index.htm
My own thoughts on large companies getting into the organic industry are that it's part of a natural process of diffusion. The diffusion of any innovation (and Organic farming is actually an innovation at this point in history) follows a specific pattern. It starts out by appealing to a small segment of society called the Innovators. The next group is called the Early Adopters. That 2nd group is the one that really moves the innovation forward because these Early Adopters are listened to by their peers/neighbors/friends/family by the 3rd group, the "Early Majority." Once an innovation is accepted and sought after by the Early Majority it is apparent to those who want to make money that the innovation is lucrative business and they better consider getting involved. That's why you're seeing companies like Colgate get into the mix. Even the "Big Three" meat packers are starting to get involved in marketing "natural beef." As you all pointed out, this doesn't mean it's a quality product, they're just using the popularity/hype/spin that's a result of the natural diffusion process to sell a product. So just like anything else, it's up to you to know what you're putting in your body. STILL-I think that the spread of Organic produce and Grass fed beef is a GOOD thing even though we'll have to sort through some chaff to get to the good stuff.
Finally, if you're looking for quality natural meat producers go to: www.eatwild.com to find local producers.
happy reading and healthy eating to you all-Amy |
| therusticcottage |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 4:29:09 PM
Go to Across The Fence and read No Bar Code thread. The answers to a lot of Bridge's questions are in that article. Thanks again Robin for posting!
http://therusticcottage.etsy.com
http://www.homesteadblogger.com/therusticcottage/
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| therusticcottage |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 3:46:35 PM
Robin -- once again you have wonderful information to share. Very good point about the tomatoes! Just another reason to buy local or grow your own.
http://therusticcottage.etsy.com
http://www.homesteadblogger.com/therusticcottage/
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| ThymeForEweFarm |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 10:35:26 AM
quote:
Now Wal-Mart is stating they are going to increase there market of Organics. Do you think this is a good thing or not.
I think it's a very good marketing strategy because "organic" is a great buzz word. Unfortunately, there aren't yet enough organic farms in North America to meet Wal Mart's needs. Organic and "clean" are important. There's a bigger picture than just organic. I'm glad organic food is more widely available but I can't honestly say I think it's any better than industrial when I take the whole issue into consideration. I'll be more glad when most of it comes from our own countries and uses few resources.
quote:
We searched worldwide for organic tomatoes that meet our strict standards of taste, color and quality. Our organic tomatoes come from certified organic farms in Israel, which follow the regulations of the National Organic Program of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
All the way from Isreal. Think about how old those tomatoes are before they get here. They're unripe when picked (lacking the best nutrition because nutrients have not been allowed to fully developed) because ripe tomatoes wouldn't ship from Isreal well. Nutrition starts to decline almost as soon as the tomato is taken from the vine. A lot of energy goes into getting them here. This is not really clean, healthy food.
quote:
Organic food production is based on a system of farming that maintains and replenishes soil fertility without the use of pesticides and fertilizers.
That sentence is not accurate. We do use pesticides when necessary. Without fertilizer we couldn't grow our crops. We use natural pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers. Soil amendments are also natural. Hopefully, organic growers are also considering which pesticides, herbicides and fertilizers are safe, not just organic. Organic doesn't always mean safe for people or the environment. Rotenone is a good example of that. Raw manure is another example.
quote:
I understand it takes ALOT of money to be total organic, from what I learned at my so-called organic herb farm, and if your not a big co. then maybe it doesn't pay.
Labor is expensive. Sustainable farms generally pay a sustainable wage to its employees. We spend very little money on seeds, soil amendments, fertilizers, etc. It's labor that runs up our costs but we wouldn't ask anyone to work for an unfair wage. We lost our best worker this year. She's an ambitious, hard-working young lady who is moving out west. I kind of feel like I lost my left hand. I can't replace her easily. It will probably take a person and a half this year to do the work she does. That isn't the fault of anyone we hire. It takes time to learn a Roma from a Grandma Mary's and to learn the layout and find where bushel baskets are stored and everything else that goes into sustainable farming. Other than labor, the rest of organic production is inexpensive for us.
Robin
www.thymeforewe.com
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| Bridge |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 09:50:00 AM
Here is the reply I recieved about the Organic diced tomatoes:
Your communication concerning our Hunt's Organic Diced Tomatoes was most welcome. We appreciate comments and questions from our consumers.
We searched worldwide for organic tomatoes that meet our strict standards of taste, color and quality. Our organic tomatoes come from certified organic farms in Israel, which follow the regulations of the National Organic Program of the U.S. Department of Agriculture.
Organic refers to the way agricultural products - food and fiber - are grown and processed. Organic food production is based on a system of farming that maintains and replenishes soil fertility without the use of pesticides and fertilizers. Organic foods are minimally processed without artificial ingredients, preservatives, or irradiation to maintain the integrity of the food. Before a product can be labeled "organic" a Government-approved certifier inspects the farm where the food is grown to make sure the farmer is following all the rules necessary to meet USDA organic standards. Companies that handle or process organic food before it gets to your local supermarket or restaurant must be certified too.
You can also refer to http://www.ams.usda.gov/nop/indexIE.htm
We appreciate the time you have taken to contact us and your interest in our products. We hope this information is helpful in selecting our fine products in the future.
Sincerely,
ConAgra Foods Consumer Affairs
~~Bridge's Boutique~~
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| westernhorse51 |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 06:13:25 AM
you can be cheated so easily w/ companies stating they are organic and the usda makes many allowences for companies to say organic when in reality they are less organic then people growing food in their own backyards. I understand it takes ALOT of money to be total organic, from what I learned at my so-called organic herb farm, and if your not a big co. then maybe it doesn't pay. But I will support and buy from every local person I can in my area. If they don't use pesticides but not organic, I'll buy from them. I can't find yet, a place around me where I can get chicken or beef thats not at least range free, antibiotic free or chemical free so we just do w/out it. I am in full support of buying local as long as it is at least pesticide & chemical free.
she selects wool and flax and works with eager hands Prov.31:13 |
| Horseyrider |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 04:45:10 AM
I totally support businesses like Walmart bringing organic foods to the consumer. Little farms might cheat rather than lose a crop; these guys are going to be much more regulated and watched due to their visibility. Companies like Earthbound Farms are experiencing wonderful growth, and everyday people are getting to FINALLY experience quality organic produce at reachable prices.
I also like how it shuts up those that would say that it's impossible to raise major crops for mass distribution organically. What, do they think that food was invented in the last 60 years by Monsanto???
What I DON'T like is how often, when companies like this are purchased, the quality erodes. I remember a day when Dannon yogurt was in waxed paper cartons, was tart with lots of FRUIT in the bottom, and was sweetened with sugar. And it weighed eight ounces! Now it's a six ounce plastic carton containing plastic yogurt, high fructose corn syrup, has a few remants of shreds of fruit in the bottom, and it tastes just like the plastic carton--- bland and tasteless. I can't help but wonder what the original founders of that company think of how their original vision has been distorted.
I totally understand how market pressures can cause companies to make a product more bland (it becomes acceptable by more consumers), or to use HFCS (it makes it cheaper, and it still tastes sweet). It's hard to carve out a market share in any business.
But for those like me who want it a certain way, it gets harder and harder to find the real thing. |
| garliclady |
Posted - Apr 26 2006 : 04:32:38 AM
To support local and keep in form check out slow foods http://www.slowfoodusa.org/ Most areas have there own locl or state group. Our local group supports local farms , business, and sponsors events to make the public aware of buying local and what produce is "in season" and how to find it.
Does anyone know about the full circle brand organic food? Our grocery store carries it and I wondered about there background , Does any one know???
My Farm http://home.bellsouth.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&ext=1&groupid=140532&ck=
My Recipes http://recipecircus.com/recipes/garliclady/]
My blog http://www.epicourier.com/Garliclady/ |
| therusticcottage |
Posted - Apr 25 2006 : 9:17:31 PM
Some things that I read on the internet regarding organics and Wal-Mart (and other stores for that matter) -- they can buy what is labeled organic from countries outside the US and sell it as that here. The organic guidelines are not monitored closely in other countries so who know what you will be getting. The best bet is to look for the USDA Organic label on products. I'm really not going to support these companies by buying their organic products. They aren't doing it because they care about the wholesomeness of the food or the American farmer -- they're doing it for money.
The integrity of organic will only be compromised if we don't educate ourselves about where the "organic" food is coming from. And educate others that just because the label says organic it isn't necessarily USDA organic.
I was saddened to see that Tom's of Maine had sold out because I like many of their products. There are many companies that make organic or natural products that are owned by large corporations and have been for a long time. Unfortunately that information is not on the front page of the newspaper.
Buying local is always best and that's where my dollars will be spent. We're putting in a good sized garden this year so that we can put up our own food. What I don't grow I will buy at the Farmer's Market to put up. That way I know where my food is coming from.
http://therusticcottage.etsy.com
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| sonflowergurl |
Posted - Apr 25 2006 : 7:46:05 PM
I've been wondering (thinking) about this lately too. We currently don't buy organic only because of cost constraints, but when the finances are available we do. My husband was wondering how "good" (integrity-wise) mass-produced organic stuff really was....
I'd buy 100% local organics from small family farms if I could.
Katee
The end will justify the pain it took to get us here.
"Looking Toward the Son"---- http://sonflowergirl731.blogspot.com
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