| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 5:37:05 PM
Hi Farmgirls,
I have something odd happening with my grape vines and wondered if anyone had any thoughts or advice.
We grow Reliance grapes near the back of pour yard and they have been healthy and problem free until this year. They started out the Spring well and suddenly in the last two weeks I noticed a large amount of leaves seem to be inexplicably drying up and falling off. The vine plants are properly watered, fertilized, pruned, etc, so I have no idea what is happening. There are no signs of any kind of insect infestation I can see and I don't see any fungus.
Anyone ever had this happen?
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| 24 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jul 13 2012 : 3:35:26 PM
Glad to hear there was some improvement, Jen! I'll keep all my fingers crossed for you!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Hazel |
Posted - Jul 12 2012 : 2:56:10 PM
Well, I used all the store bought insecticidal soap and had to finish with the diluted dish soap everyone was mentioning.... And it seems to have made a dramatic improvement! Still not sure if the plants have the yellow aster disease, but I guess we will just have to watch and wait! I'm going to spray the soap again tonight and hope it helps kill off the rest of the lil buggers so they don't just keep breeding! I plan on getting the neem this weekend while visiting my parents in rural Delaware. Let's keep our collective fingers crossed! |
| Hazel |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 3:14:50 PM
Thank you so much Suzanne! I'm very new to this forum and I will definately fine out about the neem! I'm about to go out and spray my babies with insecticidal soap again (since I just got more, might as well use it until I get the neem)... Hopefully my lil garden survives! No one around here bothers with their gardens, and mine is in full view from the street. Everyone stops and comments on how awesome it is! It makes me so proud! I would hate to loose everything I worked so hard for. I'll let ya know what happens! |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 12:12:12 PM
Oh, Jen - I am so sorry to hear about the leafhoppers attacking your garden. I feel so much for every plant in my garden and yard that whenever one is flagging or ailing, it feels like watching a friend struggle. Nini seemed to have a lot of success using a NEEM product, although I don't know which one. You could email her by clicking on her Farmgirl name on her post, then clicking on the email prompt on her profile and ask. I used the organic insecticide twice a day and got rid of the ones on my tree. I think they may have been the culprit that killed all my grape vines before I discovered the problem (and I actually started tearing up when I had to dig them out).
I hadn't heard about the virus, but I have heard some sort of sticky substance the leafhoppers give off attracts some kind of fungus or mildew that can destroy a tree or plant.
I hope you can drive them away from your garden. I will be thinking good thoughts for you.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Hazel |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 07:41:24 AM
I have these little buggers on my plants too! I have a very tiny organic garden where I grow medicinal herbs and plants as well as ornamental flowers and one blackberry bush (my yard is TINY!). I thought they were white flies so I sprayed with the organic insecticidal soap and bought the sticky yellow white fly traps, but they are covered in 2 days and I still have these buggers flying off when I water or disturb the plants. They started with the blackberry bush, which doesn't seem to be hurting too much, but have now moved to my calendula, lemon balm and anise hyssop. Those are all taking a beating. I read that the green leaf hopper transmits a virus call aster's yellow, or yellow aster virus.. And it's not curable. You need to rip out affected plant and toss (not compost!) I am worried that's what's going on out there right now and I wanna cry! All my plants were started lovingly by seed, nurtured and cared for organically (I even have a worm bin for compost) and now it might be all in vain! I hope my blackberry can be saved. Any thought? Anyone ever deal with this? |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jun 15 2012 : 05:26:36 AM
Nini - glad to hear the Neem worked, but sorry to hear the leafhoppers were already over everything. My girls and I spent most of the day in the yard and garden yesterday and we all went over practically every inch and couldn't see a single leafhopper anywhere. Not even on the grapevines or around any of the maples. As you pointed out, this could mean they laid eggs we haven't seen and an infestation could be on it's way. Also, they could have swarmed off somewhere else nearby - possibly neighboring property - and will be back. I am just going to have to be really vigilant and keep going over everything. Just in case, I think we will hit Home Depot this weekend and get more of the EcoSmart Organic spray and maybe pick up some Neem, as well.
I felt sympathy when you mentioned the spider caught in the Neem crossfire. Same thing happened to me when I spent that week spraying the leafhoppers with the EcoSmart. There was a big, beautiful wood spider on the tree root and I didn't see it until I sprayed it and he was no more. I felt terrible, considering what great "bad bug" killers they are. I always love to see them in my garden and if we find one in the house, we always trap it and relocate it out there. I figure, let them do pest control for me, right?
I meant to tell you, if you have any disease problems on your plants this year, EcoSmart also makes a great organic gardening-approved fungicide I've used with pretty good success.
Keep me posted, too, Nini - I hope we all win the garden "battle" against pests this year!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Ninibini |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 8:47:06 PM
Suzanne - I did try the Neem tonight. I waited until early evening, when things had cooled off a bit. I bought Neem oil concentrate, followed the directions, and soaked all the leaves. Let me tell you - the bugs did NOT like it at all! Those little leaf hoppers went crazy. I have to say also that I accidentally sprayed a spider in the process (I never bother spiders in the garden), and it died within seconds. I felt so bad. So, yes, it really is effective. Everything I read said that you should not spray this stuff when the bees are around because you don't want to kill them. I haven't seen ANY bees at all yet, and the plants aren't flowering right now, so I decided to take the chance. After I sprayed I waited a bit and then walked through the garden... Not a bug hopped, jumped, skipped or flew - complete peace. The directions say to do this every 14 days unless we have a severe infestation, and then to spray every 7 days. I'm going to play it by ear and maybe just order some ladybugs. Apparently ladybugs are not affected by the Neem if I need to use it. I also wanted to let you know that as I sprayed, I was VERY surprised to see them on almost ALL of the plants out there. It's a good thing I took quick action and did something. I worry for you that they may have already moved on from the grapevines to other plants in your garden already, but you just haven't seen them yet - or maybe there are just laid eggs waiting to hatch, you know? I'm just going to be really, really careful with the Neem because I don't want to kill the beneficial bugs, either. It's still kind of early so my garden is still looking young - nothing is nearly full-grown yet. I would really like to nip this problem in the bud before all the plants do come into their fullness, though, because it will really be miserable trying to fight them at that point. I'm a little overwhelmed just thinking about it! Let's see what happens - one step at a time. I would rather use as few chemicals - organic or not - as possible, though. I will see if I can find the EcoSmart product this weekend. Maybe it will be a much nicer alternative, or, at least, a better follow-up/maintenance product to the Neem. I'll keep you posted! Please do the same, okay? :) Hugs - Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 1:12:39 PM
I would suggest pulling/digging one of your grapevines up and check the root system, in order to rule out rodent problems, you want to rule out by process of elimination before using anything else, organic or not...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 12:03:45 PM
You are right, Tina - the diluted dishsoap trick is often very effective. I wonder if it would work on these leafhoppers, too? They seem really hardy insects, for some reason.
Nini - I was reading on another garden website about Neem. It is often effective, but they advised using it as judiciously as possible because it is so effective at killing insects - beneficial as well as detrimental. I've never used it before, I have used the EcoSmart Organic Insect Killer I posted about, which does not contain Neem. I have also used the diluted dishsoap with a little canola oil thrown in - but up until these leaf hoppers, I haven't encountered any other insect so persistant and hard to kill. Everyone online seems to think these are tough ones to eradicate. I'm not sure if it's rhetoric or not. Definitely has me worried.
While we were out in the yard, my girls and I hunted everywhere and couldn't actually SEE anymore, but my grape vines are all near dead.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 11:34:11 AM
dishsoap diluted in water , sprayed on the plants will suffacate them, aphids and many other kinds of insects...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 10:39:02 AM
Nini - the spray I used that seemed to at least drive them away from my maple is called EcoSmart Organic Garden Insect Killer and I bought it from Home Depot. I had to soak the area twice a day for a week. I've used it in my veggie garden before for a pest problem, but only once a day in the evening after full sun was over and heat down (so as not to damage plants). Still searching on line ...
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Ninibini |
Posted - Jun 14 2012 : 07:57:26 AM
Okay... here's what the Master Gardener said: First check online to see if the pictures match what I'm seeing, because they do sound like potato leaf hoppers. He asked if I live in the country, because they love alfalfa, and usually when local farmers cut down alfalfa, that's when they move into smaller gardens. I actually live in the city, but we're not too far from a BIG local farm owned by my girlfriend's family. I don't believe they "do" alfalfa, though. He said that they don't show any organic solutions for the leaf hopper, but he recommended I visit Agway and pick up some pyrethrum product or Seven. He said to use spray because if you apply powder who knows where it ends up, plus you really don't want to be breathing it in. So I mentioned that I had used Seven a couple of years ago for a different problem, and it worked, BUT my garden is organic and when I did use it, I noticed it really "hardened" or changed the plants (i.e., lettuce was no longer tender and flavorful, it became rather rigid/hard and tasteless). He asked if I had done research online, which I had (and, like you Suzanne, I found that there is really nothing definitive). I asked him about using Neem oil. He said that he knows that it is approved for organic gardening, and that it might work. We could try that first and then if it doesn't work, move onto the Seven spray. He said that I can get neem at Agway or even probably find it at the "big box" stores... SO, I'm going to head out today, buy some Neem oil spray and give it a try. I know there is some sort of Bio-Neem product out there online (more safe? more organic, perhaps?), but I really don't want to wait on and order due to processing and shipping time, you know? I'll let you know what happens... Good luck! - Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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| Ninibini |
Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 8:34:45 PM
Oh,wow Suzanne! That's something, isn't it?! Scarey! Do you recall the name of the organic insecticide you used, and where you bought it? I've been doing an all-organic garden and really would like to keep it that way. I'm with you - I'm a little terrified of where they will go next, too. I guess when your garden is good, the bugs will love it, too. We have tons of birds flocking in and out - I just wish they would eat this little buggers so I wouldn't have to worry! UGH! Well, I'll definitely let you know what I find out - definitely! :) Thanks so much! - Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 6:53:51 PM
Oh my goodness, Nini, I think you are right! When I read your post I practically screamed. About a month before this started happening with my grapevines, I noticed a swarm of smallish superfast green, hopping/flying insects at the base of one of my maple trees about 15-20 feet away from my vines. I'd never seen anything like them, but there was something detrimental looking about them that made me uneasy. My husband didn't recognize what they were, and I asked a few neighbors who had no ideas either. I got out a completely organic-approved insecticide/repellent and sprayed the area twice a day for a week. After a week, I didn't see them anymore and thought the problem was solved. Now I think they just moved on to my grapevines. Funny thing is, I didn't SEE them on the vines - although they could have swarmed, damaged the plant severely and moved on before I caught it. I must say the thought of them lurking in swarms on the property has me terrified of what they will go after next. I have been researching organic fixes for them since I read your post, but haven't yet found anything consistently definitive. If I do, I'll post. If you find anything, let me know.
And, your poor beans Nini and Krystle! I feel for you both - so heartbreaking to lose plants.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Ninibini |
Posted - Jun 13 2012 : 3:13:20 PM
Suzanne, I just posted to Krystle because she and I are having the same problem with our beans. When I went out to the garden this morning, I found a whole bunch of little tiny flying/hopping green bugs falling from the bean leaves as I plucked away the diseased material. They are little tiny green grasshopper-looking bugs: bright green, about a quarter inch long, if that, and they hop AND they fly. Upon doing a little research, I learned that they are called leaf hoppers and actually may be the cause of the bean issue... BUT I also learned that they attack grape vines, too! I don't know for sure, but I thought I should share this information with you since it could also be what you're experiencing. I wasn't able to call the local extension to find out what I need to do, but I will and will also relay the information to you. Hang tight - hopefully SOMEONE will have the answer to help all of us! :) Hugs - Nini
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 08:12:04 AM
It could be, Nini, but it's like nothing I've ever seen before. Except, of course, for what happened with that arborvitae in the same vicinity last year.
I hadn't thought about that arborvitae until I started talking about the grape vines, but it was almost identical. One day it was emerald green and healthy and within a week it was about a third dried up and not 3 weeks later it was completely dead. And I new it was getting proper care.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Ninibini |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 07:50:55 AM
Could it be a form of blight, Suzanne?
Farmgirl Sister #1974
God gave us two hands... one to help ourselves, and one to help others!
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| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 05:15:24 AM
Thank you everyone for being so supportive and helpful.
Tina - I think you are right, I would certainly smell the dog urine by the vines if it had been heavy enough to damage them. I checked again yesterday and I didn't smell it, so I can probably rule that out.
The problem has become so bad I think the vines are near dead. It's so heartbreaking because before this year they have been healthy and thriving. I examined them again VERY closely and still can see no overt signs of any sort of insect infestation or fungus. I really don't know what to make of it.
There was one thing - while I was out there I remembered that last year I had an arborvitae tree up and die on me along the same fence line about 10 feet away from where my grapevines are. It was kind of a similar case - the tree was about 4 years old and had been healthy and thriving, and at the start of summer it looked like it just dried up and died, even though it was watered, fertilized and mulched. I dug it out, tilled the area and planted a new one in it's place and that tree is fine (so are the three other arborvitae next to it in the opposite direction). I wonder if there is some sort of rodent issue back there attacking or undermining some of the root systems?
Or maybe the neighbor is spraying some herbicide in his yard that crosses into my yard at this common point?
So frustrating. Regardless, I think my vines are not long for this world. I'm so sad about it!
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| rough start farmgirl |
Posted - Jun 12 2012 : 03:36:31 AM
Gosh Suzanne, I don't have any other guesses than what has already been offered. I feel horrible for you. It is so sad to have established plants fail all of a sudden. Hope it is just one season that they suffer!
Marianne |
| Melina |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 08:05:06 AM
Take several leaves to your county extension agent. He/she should be able to help.
The morning breeze has secrets to tell you. Do not go back to sleep.
Rumi |
| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 07:36:33 AM
the dogs urine if its a constant, several times a day hitting the vines could do damage, but you would smell it, if it was that strong, my vote is rodents...also one other thought, is there a chance that your neighbor has sprayed any kind of herbicide???
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
| LuckyMommyof5 |
Posted - Jun 11 2012 : 07:15:21 AM
Thanks for the good suggestion, Fran. I Googled all those things and the pictures don't look like what is happening on my vines (and I really was hoping it was one of those things you helpfully pointed out, because then I could have planned a fix for it). Tina - maybe you are right that it is some sort of rodent underground chewing up the roots? I checked around for critter holes and couldn't locate any near it, but obviously they could have tunneled from a distance.
It's so baffling - it looks like the plant is simply drying up, even though I know it is being properly watered and fertilized.
My only other thought is that we grow these vines along a stretch of our back fence (with trellises to support them) and our back neighbor recently got two new dogs who seem to spend all day, every day "marking their territory." Do you think they could be doing this through the fence on my grapes when I don't see it and this could cause the problem? The vines aren't right up on our fence, but I'm sure a dog could "mark" something from a fair distance.
Farmgirl Sister #3243
"The real things haven't changed. It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with simple pleasures; and have courage when things go wrong." - Laura Ingalls Wilder |
| Wauka Mountain Mama |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 8:03:06 PM
Are the leafs curling up? Could be leaf curlers...or thrip, spider mites, blight. A Google images check on each one would show you a pic that might be semilar to what you have happening.
Live simply. So that others may simply live.
http://waukamountainmama.blogspot.com/ |
| oldbittyhen |
Posted - Jun 10 2012 : 7:30:54 PM
you might have a rodent down under ground chewing the roots, that would explain the problem you are having...
"Knowlege is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad" |
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