| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| guerin |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 09:09:45 AM
Folks, my MIL has a super hard clay garden that she has been trying to tame for a few years. I can't tell you how many loads of maneur we have brought in and tilled into that garden. We also put a full bale of peat into it each spring and till that into the ground. I was reading Mary Janes book last night and had the idea that maybe she should plant a ground cover now and leave it over the winter and then till it in in the spring, do you think that would help loosen her soil? What cover would you recommend??
thanks guys! |
| 12 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| guerin |
Posted - Sep 07 2005 : 10:12:44 AM
these are great responses guys, thanks. I am going to print this and give it to MIL. Thanks again! |
| thehouseminder |
Posted - Sep 07 2005 : 06:35:14 AM
Here in the Missouri River Valley clay is a common complaint. My father always spread gypsum over these areas in the fall. After a few years of this, the clay starts to break down and the earthworms move in to help the process.
Lucinda
Who loves a garden still his Eden keeps, Perennial pleasures plants, and wholesome harvest reaps. ---Bronson Alcott
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| Alee |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 9:45:54 PM
Another quick idea- Soil conservationist call the earthworm "Nature's Till" if you could buy earthworms and dump them on your clay area that too will help break up the soil and will make everything healthier.
Alee |
| Alee |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 9:44:54 PM
You must have a lot of (is it lye that causes the reaction to cement?) in your soil along with the clay. That is a great point though, Marianne- Each area is different and in someplaces you could make the situation worse by adding something that works elsewhere. Luckily sand and clay here in Moscow _didn't_ produce cement. The extension offices are a great resource that I think many forget about. They have great information for your areas.
Ciao
Alee |
| Mari-dahlia |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 5:40:04 PM
When I called my local cooperative extension they told me that sand and clay make cement and although it may work in some situations it is more likely to make cement. I Had rock hard clay when I lived in SanAntonio Texas. You could not even til it it was so hard. I Arranged to pick up horse manure from a local stable and added peat. I could not afford to do much. I then put down a layer of newspaper after thoroughly wetting the soil and over that I put a composted mulch. The newspaper holds the moisture in to allow the organisms in the soil to break down and in a little over a year I had hand diggable soil.
Marianne |
| Eileen |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 2:19:02 PM
I also have learned that the deep rooted "Weeds" medicinals like dandelions, and dock actually do grow in these soild as mother natures way of improving the soil. Their strong deep growing tap roots break up the hard clay and bring much needed nutrients to the surface to be available for other plants. We have them prolifically here and I have been toying with the idea of letting them grow a season and killing them with vinegar just before I till the soil just before they go to seed. Might try this next year in a small test plot of maybe 10 feet square. My chickens love both plants and the seeds. I eat the dandylions and use the dock as medicine. I plan to harvest the dandelion roots this fall for medicine also.
Eileen
Songbird; singing joy to the earth |
| greyghost |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 1:30:55 PM
Clover will certainly help -
I know this goes against a lot of current gardening techniques, but dandelions and chamomile are EXCELLENT at breaking up the soil and adding in nutrients. Dandelions have a lot of medicinal value as well, and taste pretty good in salads! DH thinks I am nuts for not pulling all the wild dandelions out of the yard but - hey all that green expanse in the front yard is boring anyway. |
| quiltedess |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 1:30:43 PM
It can reseed itself, but I didn't think it was a nuisance. It's very easy to keep under control and of course if you till it before it blooms there wouldn't be a problem at all. I've tried fall rye too, and had as much or more reseeding with the rye as I did the crimson clover. That other weedy-type of clover is a completely different animal :-)
Nancy |
| Alee |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 1:30:14 PM
I have bad news- I asked my Use and Abuse of Land resources about this type of thing and he said that it is practically impossible to alter the state of the soil. What you should do to help loosen the clay is to actually till in SAND. Thats right...Sand. Sand is the direct opposite of clay (Clay particles are tiny and sand particles are the biggest type of soil there is). You will spend tons of money trying to alter the soil with vegatable matter. I asked him about my 12X16 foot garden that I had at the time and he and the other professor practically laughed at me when I told them what I had done. They said that to change soil of a garden that size I would have needed about 3 truck loads of peat moss and manure!
Ciao
Alee |
| DaisyFarm |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 11:14:37 AM
Nancy...do you have any problem with the clover reseeding itself or becoming a nuisance? We have always put fall rye into the garden...to improve the texture, but also to hold the topsoil in place if we should flood in the winter. While fall rye improves the soil texture, it doesn't fix nitrogen like clover does. Somehow planting clover when it's something I battle to keep OUT of the garden makes me nervous!
Live a good and honorable life. Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time. |
| quiltedess |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 10:21:10 AM
I have used crimson clover as a cover crop. It "fixes" nitrogen too. It is pretty as it's growing but when it blooms, if you let it, it is gorgeous.
Nancy |
| Eileen |
Posted - Sep 06 2005 : 09:32:49 AM
I have been told that for this type of clay which is the same thing we are dealing with here that a ground cover of buckwheat tilled into the soil while still green done twice in a row would improve this type of soil wonderfully. It should be done several years in a row. So plant now and till when it is six inches high and then plant again and till when 6 inches high again then let set over winter. We are in a mild winter area so I do not know when the best time would be for you.
Eileen
songbird; singing joy to the earth |
