| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Rebekka Mae |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 12:59:30 PM
I woke up this morning to the smell of a lawn care company spraying herbicides and fertilizer all over my front and back yard- a year ago this used to be a rental (so maybe they used to order the service but we never have) but we have been working so hard to garden and care for the place without chemicals. So- how toxic is this stuff? My stroller was out on the lawn- can I clean it or do I need to toss it?
The owner of the company just showed up and said they sprayed 2-4D, which I think is a carcinogen that they use to kill millfoil. He gave me the whole song and dance about cows being able to eat the grass four hours after it is applied and then made some comment about not touching the lawn and then the tomatoes as it would kill them...
So is my garden safe to eat from later this summer? Do these things really break down so fast that I can let the kids on the grass? This makes me nuts since it is my first garden and house and I have worked so hard to avoid doing anything harmful here. Also I am extremely sensitive to the spray and I already had a terrible migraine this morning. Boo hoo- I know there are much more serious worries in the world but this was such a bummer to wake up to.
Thanks for letting me unload-
Rebekka
Nature does not ask permission. Blossom and birth whenever you feel like it!
Clarissa Pinkola Estes |
| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alee |
Posted - Jun 02 2007 : 1:17:46 PM
Rebekka-
I am glad that you got some great information! At least your organic practices will help get rid of the toxins faster and since we are just getting into the warm season it sounds like it should break down faster. Good thing it isn't fall!
Alee |
| Rebekka Mae |
Posted - Jun 01 2007 : 9:03:51 PM
My friend emailed Seattle Tithe for me and this is the advice she gave...
thought this would be good info to pass along-
Thank you for contacting the Hotline and Seattle Tilth with your question.
First of all, I want to say how sorry I am to hear about the unauthorized spraying. I can understand your level of frustration and I really feel for your situation, I hope that I can give you some helpful information here.
It is great that you have been able to pinpoint exactly what has been sprayed, better to know what you are dealing with specifically.
Yes, you are right, 2, 4-D is a suspected carcinogen, it is somewhat persistent in the environment and it is especially hazardous to aquatic life. It is an herbicide and some plants will be more sensitive to it than others. There is a lot of information out there on this as well as its toxic effects on humans and other characteristics such as its average half-life in the environment. I've included some links below.
From my research in the past I have found the average half life to be anywhere from 7 to 30 days. This slow process of breaking the herbicide/pesticide down into less than harmful compounds is largely accomplished by soil bacteria. Having a healthy soil environment, bursting with micro and macroorganisms such as earthworms will work in your favor here. The best thing you can do in this situation is continue to feed your soil by topdressing with compost (1/4 to 1/2 inch) in the spring and fall to encourage a bustling soil life and continue with your organic practices. The other major factor to the length of the half life is temperature and moisture. When things are warm and moist, the bacteria are actively breaking down the toxins. When things are cold (winter) the activity slows way down. So with a half life as long as 30 days, it may take several growing seasons to be completely removed from the environment.
As far as your present safety is concerned, children are more at risk as they are smaller and tend to have more skin contact with their environment. If you wanted to minimize their risk, a different play area may be the way to go--cover the skin and frequent hand washing can also certainly help. For you, leaving your outdoor shoes at the door will help to not track it into your home. Thoroughly washing and peeling any veggies from the garden will help as well and as far as the stroller is concerned, washing it down thoroughly and sending that water down the drain and to our wastewater treatment is the way to go.
Well I hope that this helps and that you find some of the resources below useful. Please let us know if there is anything else we can do for you.
Amy
Nature does not ask permission. Blossom and birth whenever you feel like it!
Clarissa Pinkola Estes |
| Huckelberrywine |
Posted - Jun 01 2007 : 07:36:57 AM
I spoke with DH about this, and he uses a lot of chemicals. He seemed to think your garden would be okay. He said 2-4D is mostly salt based, and kills broad-leaved plants. So, if any got on your garden, it would die. Any produce you grow this year most likely never got sprayed. Hope this helps. (I hate chemicals too)..2-4D gives me a migrane too, so it is on DH's no-no list at home. :)
We make a difference. |
| Runbikegrrl |
Posted - Jun 01 2007 : 03:38:13 AM
I too share my condolances that you had to go through this aweful experience. Especially after your expenses and hard work going organic. I would have "pulled a mental" on that guy...what is wrong with people!! I am not too sure about the heavy watering this you probably should call a enviromental science dept at a college or the local DEP...probably too late though since I think you posted this early yesterday. Good luck.
"So many interests so little time!"
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| MariaAZ |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 9:17:32 PM
Rebekka, you may also want to look up your agricultural extension service for more information. I did a quick Internet search, and the University of Idaho looks to have a department of agriculture. The Univeristy of Idaho extention website is http://www.extension.uidaho.edu; they have a section on pests and pesticides, but you can probably also find your county extension office and call them to see what they have to say about the pesticide and your garden.
Visit my blog at www.craftyfool.net |
| Alee |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 8:05:36 PM
Rebekka-
If you get really freaked out about eating your garden I would be happy to share tomatoes with you. I should have more than enough since I planted over 2 dozen plants!
Alee |
| Rebekka Mae |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 7:10:42 PM
I should call the Better Business Bureau- I mean this guy has sprayed here twice since we bought the place just assuming that he should- of course someone else, the old rental agency I guess, has been paying the bills since we bought the house last July.Well- after waxing sentimental about the animals they have been here with this guy spraying them for 10 + years so they must be tough.
Did you all see under ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS the part about bees- "Brood production was severely impaired when honeybees were fed moderate doses, but, at lower levels of exposure they lived significantly longer than the controls "
What a weird job that scientist had-
Well- off to bed to sleep off a wild day.
Thanks for the support girls, Rebekka
Nature does not ask permission. Blossom and birth whenever you feel like it!
Clarissa Pinkola Estes |
| Alee |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 6:31:00 PM
Rebekka-
I think since your garden didn't actually get sprayed, you should be okay. You will know right away if it really did get sprayed because most of the garden plants would die since they mostly fall into the "broadleaf" variety. Hopefully your pheasant and worms are okay. They are probably healthier than if anyone else lived there and would be getting yearly if not more doses of this junk if not for you!
Alee |
| Rebekka Mae |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 4:44:20 PM
Thanks so much for your support ladies- and the info that you provided has actually relieved a few of my fears Alee. I should say that the owner of the company was VERY apologetic and truly believed that what he was saying about his chemicals would comfort me. I guess that those 'facts' comfort him enough to allow him to make his living spraying them all over everything in town. He surely won't come round here again after I chased his poor spray guy out of the yard in nothing but my robe this morning!!!
So - what do you girls think about eating out of my garden later this summer? I just brought in a ton (literally) of compost and soil so that I knew it would be free of chemicals and now this....the garden was not actually sprayed but the grass is not far away. I am off to water all evening and dilute it (though the little underground spring behind my house will be all the worse for it. I just hope my pheasant doesn't get sick from it! Oh and the poor worms....
Rebekka
Nature does not ask permission. Blossom and birth whenever you feel like it!
Clarissa Pinkola Estes |
| Huckelberrywine |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 4:27:20 PM
I would call the Better Business Bureau for certain to report this. He should have apologized instead of trying to just dismiss your concerns. Also, you should always document, document, document. From your migrane to any plant loss, you shouldn't have had to go through that.
You could ask the groundskeeper at a local school about any ban on this chemical for use at schools. At least here, they have to apply for permits, carefully schedule and announce the spray day in the paper, are limited to what chemicals they can use, and all to protect the kids and help parents feel safe that kids can play on the grass at schools. I hope your area is as careful? Of course, no one eats the grass at school...oh, well, maybe they do?
We make a difference. |
| cinnamongirl |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 4:22:51 PM
All I can say is ugg and gross! |
| DaisyFarm |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 4:14:53 PM
You're waaaay calmer than I would be Rebekka...I would just be furious. Who in their right mind sprays a lawn with a stroller on it??? Morons!!! "Hello, chemical idiots? Where would you like me to submit the receipt for the new stroller I had to buy?"
I'd be talking to a lawyer...maybe...geez, it would take me awhile to settle down. This type of insanity really makes me crazy.
Diane
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| Alee |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 1:54:02 PM
Oh Rebekka! I am so sorry to hear that they sprayed your lawn! What were they thinking!
here is some information I googled.
Fate in Humans and Animals
The absorption of the herbicide is almost complete in mammals after ingestion and nearly all of a dose is excreted in the urine. The compound is readily absorbed through the skin and lungs also. When five men were given 5 mg/kg, they excreted most of the dose (about 82%) as unchanged 2,4-D.
Only traces of the compound have been found in the milk of lactating animals for six days following exposure. The half-life is between 10 and 20 hours in living organisms. There is little evidence to suggest that the compound accumulates to any significant level in mammals or in other organisms (18). Peak concentrations of 2,4-D were found in the blood, liver, kidney, lungs and spleen with lower levels in muscle and brain between six and eight hours after small doses (1 mg/kg) were given to rats. After 24 hours there were no detectable tissue residues. 2,4-D passes through the placenta in pigs and rats. In rats, about 20% was detected in the uterus, placenta, fetus, and amniotic fluid (12). Chickens given moderate amounts of 2,4-D in drinking water from birth to maturity had very low levels of the compound in egg yolks and only a trace in the egg whites.
ECOLOGICAL EFFECTS
2,4-D is slightly toxic to wildfowl. Mallards, pheasants, quail, and pigeons had LD50 levels of >1000, 472, 668, and 668 mg/kg, respectively.
Some formulations of 2,4-D are highly toxic to fish while others are less so. For example the LC50 ranges between 1.0 mg/l to 100 mg/l in cutthroat trout, depending on the formulation used. Channel catfish had less than 10% mortality at 10 mg/l in 48 hours. Green sunfish when exposed to 110 mg/l for 41 hours showed no effect on swimming response. Limited studies indicate a half-life of less than 2 days in fish and oysters when exposure is discontinued (11).
Brood production was severely impaired when honeybees were fed moderate doses, but, at lower levels of exposure they lived significantly longer than the controls. The honeybee LD50 is 11.5 micrograms/bee.
Concentrations of 10 mg/l for 85 days did not adversely affect the survival of adult dungeness crabs. The early immature stages had an LC50 of greater than 10 mg/l in 96 hours indicating that the compound is only slightly toxic to these organisms. Brown shrimp had a small increase in mortality at 2 mg/l over a 48 hour exposure period.
ENVIRONMENTAL FATE
2,4-D applied at 1.16 lb/acre to bluegrass turf in a laboratory experiment had a half-life of ten days. Other half-life figures for the herbicide in soil are seven days (15-25 degree C with 65% moisture) and ten days in non-sterile soil and 1.5 to 16 days in other studies. Soil microbes are primarily responsible for its disappearance in soil. Studies in Alaska and Canada failed to detect leaching in 22 weeks or from spring to fall (10), but 2,4-D has been included on the EPA list of compounds that are likely to leach from soil.
In aquatic environments microorganisms readily degrade 2,4-D and breakdown by sunlight is not a major reason for loss. Rates of breakdown increase with increased nutrients, sediment load and dissolved organic carbon. Under oxygenated conditions the half-life can be short, in the order of one week to several weeks. 2,4-D interferes with normal plant growth processes. Uptake of the compound is through leaves, stems and roots; however, it is generally nonpersistent. In one study when 2,4-D was applied to grass, there were 80 ppm at day zero, 45 ppm at 14 days, and 6 ppm at 56 days. Breakdown in plants is by a variety of biological and chemical pathways (11).
Despite its short half-life in soil and in aquatic environments, the compound has been detected in groundwater supplies in at least five States and in Canada (18). It has also been detected in surface waters throughout the United States at very low concentrations.
The full article can be found:
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/24d-ext.html
Alee |
| lilpunkin |
Posted - May 31 2007 : 1:05:26 PM
I dont know exactly what you could do for sure. But I would suggest putting out the sprinklers and letting the water run on it for quite awhile. It would still get into the dirt, but at least it wouldnt be on the surface. Plus maybe all the water would dilute it some! Im so sorry this happened to you, I hope all goes well.
Life isn't measured by how many breaths you take, but by how many moments take your breath away. |
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